Giles Gray

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Posts by Giles Gray

• 
  532

  I conclude evolution is guided

  by KateWild in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  your qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.

  k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.

  in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.

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  Giles Gray

  KateWild-"If you want to you could do a bit of learning about the details in the OP and then formulate a specific question for me to challenge me or prove me wrong."

  In deed I could, but far more interesting is the defensive manner you exibited when you feared that others could challenge you to the point of contradiction.

  Your aversion to being challenged, or in this case feeling you were when you actually were not, has been quite fasinating to observe.

  KateWild-"But it doesn't matter, cofty has made a specific point to challenge my conclusions and to try and prove me wrong. He is pretty straight forward about wanting to provide proof. I don't have a problem with that."

  It would be good if that were true but you do have a problem when he challenges you. When Cofty has challenged you in other threads, you have taken it as an "attack" when he wasn't. Below is a classic example:-

  KateWild-"Your allegations are unsubstantiated, and I feel attacked by you now, just because I disagree with you it doesn't mean I am dishonest."

  I can read for myself he wasn't attacking you. I can also read for myself that both k99 and notsurewheretogo were not trying to "prove you wrong" as you accused them of.

  So your false accusations of others obviously stem from some kind of angst you feel when faced with being contradicted. That's the part of this thread I have found most interesting.
• 
  532

  I conclude evolution is guided

  by KateWild in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  your qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.

  k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.

  in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Giles Gray

  KateWild-"Giles you are not being specific. I explained my conclusion and they didn't feel it was an explanation. But I did. My OP explains my conclusions to my satisfaction. If it doesn't satisfy some people that's okay."
  

  I couldn't be anymore specific.

  But it really is true you don't like being "proven wrong". Or is it just an aversion to being challenged?
• 
  532

  I conclude evolution is guided

  by KateWild in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  your qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.

  k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.

  in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Giles Gray

  KateWild-"I did."

  You didn't. They asked you numerous times for more details. You refrained because you didn't wish to be "proven wrong".

  It's obviouse Kate that's what you feared, evident to everyone reading this thread.
• 
  9

  Anyone in the UK know about this?

  by punkofnice in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  one of my jw spies told me that a us jw speaker was visiting the uk.

  some bigwig, on a tv screen, i believe.

  sorry, that's all i have.. anecdotal i admit, but i was told he said, "you british think you are superior.".

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  Giles Gray

  SAH-"The British are superior....most think Donald Trump is an idiot, as opposed to the nearly 50% of Americans who support him."

  I'm not so sure we can claim being any better than the US considering that over half of the voters went for Boris Johnson. LOL
• 
  532

  I conclude evolution is guided

  by KateWild in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  your qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.

  k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.

  in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Giles Gray

  KateWild-"Yes you're right. That's why I don't do that. I haven't done that in this thread. I clearly gave details about why we can draw different conclusions based on the same scientific evidence. I did not refuse to engage at all."

  So why not humour K99 and notsurwwherwtogo and answer what they want, even if they are trying to 'prove you wrong'? What harm could it do?

  Then we could all be enlightened on what is a very interesting topic.
• 
  532

  I conclude evolution is guided

  by KateWild in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  your qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.

  k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.

  in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Giles Gray

  KateWild

  I'm not claiming you're 'wrong'. I couldn't possibly know. I was just picking up on your refusal to engage K99 and notsurewheretogo because you feared they were trying to 'prove you wrong'.

  To illustrate: I will take on your point and claim that I can 100% prove that a creator doesn't exist. Nothing. Zilch. There's naught there. But I'm not going to give you the details of why I believe that because I think you have an agenda and you are "out to prove me wrong".

  Wouldn't that reaction be seen as a little transparent?
• 
  532

  I conclude evolution is guided

  by KateWild in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  your qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.

  k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.

  in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Giles Gray

  KateWild-" I publicly express my opinion and views regularly, and I have not been proven wrong."

  If you won't engage in debate with people then how can you be 'proven wrong'?

  It's the perfect defence when you fear you are wrong. If you don't give anything away you can't be challenged.
• 
  532

  I conclude evolution is guided

  by KateWild in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  your qualifications are way above mine so i'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity.

  k99, i am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions.

  in nature amino acids formed to then form dna.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Giles Gray

  KateWild-"It can also be proof that you're trying to prove me wrong, and I don't play those games."

  KateWild-"I expect neither of you will as you're both out to try and prove me wrong not show a genuine interest."

  So you refuse to debate the details of your conclusions with other people because you have an aversion to being publically 'proven wrong'?
• 
  83

  Seeking support ... Where can a Christian go

  by Sevan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey all, .

  so i recently posted for the first time and introduced myself.. i have been spending time reading various posts.

  some informative, some not so much.. since i've been reading on here, i've read a lot from atheists.

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  Giles Gray

  Sevan-" You are right in saying that my current concepts of God may be wrong."

  Your concepts of God could also be correct. That's not the issue. To claim nothing can change 'one's' conviction of a belief when it "may be wrong" is the problem. To do so would be illogical and irrational. That's all that athiests are pointing out to believers when they make such bold claims of faith.

  But it is encouraging to see that you do at least hold some reserve.

  Sevan-" There are non-tangible reasons for my faith that cannot be described or explained with logic or science. To me, God just is. He is very real to me, even if I may not have all the details correct."

  Faith is no advocate of truth or fact. In most cases it only misleads. Personal conviction is no reliable means of truth either.

  So many 'believers' share a similar conviction to yours, but I'm sure you would disagree with millions of them when their beliefs contradict your own. How would you know their faith wasn't correct and how would they know yours wasn't?

  How can you know for sure your god is the true one? He is only as real to you as Allah is to a Muslim. If they have the truth then your concept of a 'god of love' is very compromised.

  Without the ability of omniscience there is no way anyone can hold a conviction of faith free from doubt, without the problem of being seen as illogical, irrational and somewhat delusional.

  Sevan-"I do want to learn more about evolution, history, atheism, theism and many other topics. While those that know me consider me very well-educated, I fully accept that there are many areas that I could educate myself more thoroughly. I fully accept that some of the things I currently believe may be wrong."

  I have to say that this is one of the most encouraging comments I have read on this forum in recent months. I like it because it contradicts the 'closed minded' claim that "nothing" could take away your current beliefs.

  Just to point out that evolution doesn't rule out the possibility of a god. Many Christians reconcile the two and live very happily.

  Sevan- "I have a lot of research to do."

  I hope you thoroughly enjoy your research and are able to approach it with a fresh and open mind free from preconceptions. The best of luck to you.
• 
  83

  Seeking support ... Where can a Christian go

  by Sevan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey all, .

  so i recently posted for the first time and introduced myself.. i have been spending time reading various posts.

  some informative, some not so much.. since i've been reading on here, i've read a lot from atheists.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Giles Gray

  Sevan-"Giles Gray, the concept that everything, in all its wonder and complexity, just got here by chance, does not and cannot make rational sense to me. That scripture about every house having a builder really hits home for me, especially when you consider that the natural world and universe is far more complex and awe-inspiring than any house."

  Just because an alternative concept doesn't seem to be rational doesn't automatically prove the one you hold dear is anymore rational either. Both could be wrong.

  If both concepts have inconsistencies then it would be irrational and illogical to claim you could never be shaken from the one you are most familiar with, just because you've believed it longer.

  The only rational approach would be to consider both concepts objectivly. You can't achieve that by holding a bias towards a cherished concept. If that concept proves incorrect then so will be your conclusions. It would also demonstrate a lack of open mindedness.